But what do I get out of this?

[wonderingwife]

I don’t need anyone to “rally for me” I’m a big girl and can do fine on my own, I don’t see anyone rallying for me, the fact they chose to get involved in the conversation doesn’t mean they are rallying for me and quite frankly to say such a thing is a bit of an insult to the members who did get involved.

So I should go away until I (we/HE)have some experience? What happens if it isn’t a “great experience”? Should I stay away? I’m sorry that this discussion bothers you so.

What has me puzzled is if you feel so strongly about the fact the conversation isn’t worth having, that it is being over analyzed then why keep opening the thread to read?

It just feels a bit like you want to censor the conversation that’s going on in one thread that you have to actively do the work to open and read, no one is insisting you read or participate. I don’t mean to appear defensive but I am feeling a little like “if you can’t just do it/ discuss it the right way, you need to go away.”

The irony is the part of the discussion with Mister Twitsed had my husband opening up about the fact he was glad to see another man felt the same way he does, a "I'm not alone and damn it feels good to not be the only guy who feels like this." And I can relate to what he shared and who knows what may come out of just that little bit of conversation for others?

I get it; you see no benefit for you in the conversation, so why keep reading what is here?

[Allmylife4her]

I get it; you see no benefit for you in the conversation, so why keep reading what is here?

Because I like being frustrated I guess I never expected to see such interest in debating why one wouldn't participate when participation itself is what I thought was the central theme to this area of the forum. Yes, I know the obvious responses to that. I'm clearly the one whose in the minority so I will comment no more on this subject. I wish you the very best WonderingWife.

[Tom Allen]

how do you get added to the key holder group?

... and as if by magic...

[gungadn]

So I should go away until I (we/HE)have some experience? What happens if it isn’t a “great experience”? Should I stay away?

I, for one, find this to be one of the most valuable discussions that has happened on this board in a long time. And, I look forward to any and all information and discussions about your experiences, good or bad...

[locked4her55]

I, for one, find this to be one of the most valuable discussions that has happened on this board in a long time. And, I look forward to any and all information and discussions about your experiences, good or bad...

I whole heartily AGREE!

I was one of the lucky ones that botched the chastity intro with my wife but was very happy that she has grown to like being my keyholder. I am certainly aware that there are many that either have no keyholder or a keyholder that isn't vested in the process.

I thought I knew what women wanted sexually for the past 40 years. I'm sorry to say I was selfish during that time and just figured they wanted the same feelings sexually that I wanted. It took chastity and a healthy dialogue between my wife and I to really understand it.

[TwistedMister]

Most all of his are “bottom” type fetishes and that embarrasses him and I will never understand that, it works out great for me.(ha-ha)

I think that many men are conditioned from early childhood to aspire to certain 'standards' and expected behaviors (especially by their fathers)- the 'macho' tough guy roles such as those portrayed by John Wayne, Clint Eastwood Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, etc. Those who don't meet the 'standards' are often looked down upon, considered 'second-class'. Peer pressure in childhood reinforces this conditioning and the male child who appears 'weak' may be called 'pansy', 'fag', and other derogatory names. As a result of such conditioning, any desire to deviate from the 'standard' and expected behaviors engenders feelings of embarrassment and humiliation...particularly those desires which approach or even encompass aspects of homosexuality.

Can we turn the sow’s ear into a silk purse here maybe? Get away from something that makes you feel (and my own guy) uncomfortable and head back to what I said about “asking her to just figure it out on her own” given this input, posted maybe wrong place wrong time but it was something that I often found myself dealing with the bad dog. He has a habit of “here buy this, look at this, read this but don’t make me talk about, just figure out how to do it in a way you can have fun with it” and then unfairly leaves me to swing in the wind trying to figure what in the world he wants me to do with it.

(All that was all typed with a puzzled but good natured look on my face).

Well, here's *my* problem in that regard- Mrs. Twisted has a strong tendency to want to 'please' others, and will often go out of her way to do so, she will do things she doesn't really want to do if she thinks it's something someone wants her to do...particularly when it comes to *me*. I am not 'submissive' by nature, but my 'kink' and the eroticism for me lies in being *forced* to engage in behaviors and activities that deviate from the [conditioned] 'standards', and I have a 'need' that these things occur because *she* wants it and NOT because I might want her to. This causes a certain amount of conflict in how I can approach the subject, I don't want to tell her "I want you to do this" because it becomes *me* telling *her* to do what *I* want, and that's not what I want. Merely pretending that she is doing it because she *wants* to rather than because I told her that I wanted her to wasn't/isn't good enough for me. Confused? LOL, so was I for a while.

Part of the clarification in my mind occurred as a result of the event of the day she discovered how much she liked cunnilingus after intercourse. It was not something we had ever talked about and I would have been mortified at the idea of telling her that such a thought had ever crossed my mind. (I'm going to try not to go into too many details because I've posted about it before.) When she told me what was going to happen, I didn't really believe her...but I was in no position to refuse if she *did* mean it. We had not discussed 'safewords' (I don't think she even knew of the concept of a safeword at the time) and I had told her (when we began the scenario a month earlier) that if there was something she wanted to do she should pay no attention to any protests I might make against it (yeah, I've been known to play with fire...and explosives...too, sometimes at the same time). And if she meant to *really* do it I had no way out. I don't know where she came up with the idea but she looked very pleased with having done so- she was doing it because *she* wanted to...and I became intensely aroused. We've played around with some other kinky stuff on a mutually agreed basis, no bondage or force involved, and it wasn't particularly thrilling or satisfying. This was different, it was a major turn-on- it was her decision and I had no choice in the matter. And, when it turned out that I was wrong and she really *did* force me to do it, I found myself becoming aroused again despite the fact that I didn't 'like' it (in the normal sense of liking something) and despite having ejaculated only moments before.

So that leaves me in a quandary. There are things that I think it would be exciting to experience but I don't want to say that I want to do them, and often I don't *want* to do them but I think it would be erotic/exciting to be *forced* to do them. Sometimes, it seems that the mental compromise I have to make is to let her know when something she has said/done turns me on, and tell her to "have fun with it".

She has sometimes said that she would like me to 'teach' her (I have a lot more knowledge of the world of kink and her inhibitions usually(?) prevent her from exploring on her own) but I find it difficult to imagine how I could teach her without skewing it in favor of my own desires and creating a situation where she is acting out of the belief that it is something *I* want rather than something *she* wants. It's a small matter of semantics but it creates a considerable problem [in my mind].

Me being who I am I don’t let him just slip the leash and leave me to figure it out, I make him help me figure out the what, how and why of any new idea he brings up. I can typically get him to settle pretty quick and talk to me about what he is asking for/thinking about, again why I was so baffled by the way he went about approaching this, but since we have “evaluated it” and he stopped letting others speak for him and he was candid with me, I’m not baffled any more. I was gong nuts trying to get him TO talk about it.


Like I said, don’t kink related forums any more, but back when I did a common statement from women was “He tells me to do it my way then when I do he gets made because it isn’t the way he wanted it” and “He told me to just do it and enjoy it and he won’t help me and I have no idea what I am supposed to do.” Granted these comments were made in relation to BDSM type kink but I would imagine (guess) the same thing happens with the chastity kink? ( Asking because I don't know.)


“Frank talk” is always good and even as a D/s couple we have “frank talk time” where he speaks freely and has no worries of topping me or worries of me feeling like he is trying to.

Well, to me, chastity and BDSM go hand-in-hand. In *my* opinion (and the way it works for us) [a] chastity [device] is a form of bondage, a method of domination and enforcement of her will. I know that others here don't hold the same opinion but that's OK, we don't all have to do it the same way. I don't get mad when she doesn't do it *my way* because I recognize the inherent conflict of wanting her to do it *her* way, and *her* way not necessarily matching up with what I [might have] had in mind. So, I encourage her exploration and let her know when something she says/does pushes my buttons and then let her do what she wants with the knowledge. She can't read my mind (and if she could I'd be back on the semantic merry-go-round again) so patience is in order.

[Tom Allen]

. I know that others here don't hold the same opinion but that's OK, we don't all have to do it the same way.

Heretic!

[wonderingwife]

. I know that others here don't hold the same opinion but that's OK, we don't all have to do it the same way.

Heretic!

You guys are getting head of me here.....what's that theory men don't talk as much as women....I think I found the anomaly!


I’m glad to see others are interested to keeping the conversation going, there’s a lot to digest from the latest postings. I appreciate the frankness here, sometimes it can’t be easy to step away from the “oh that feels so good” aspect of something we enjoy and look at without the “feel good” feeling to keep us from feeling freaked out by what we do like. Believe me, some of my own kinks freak me out when I step back and examine them, so I do relate to how prickly it can be.

I have a feeling I am about to become a P.I.T.A. spam poster, so apologies in advance for spamming this thread.


gungadn wrote

There is a LOT Of bad information out there about "how to get your wife/significant other to lock you". Obviously, most of it written by Men that "think" they know what a woman might want. As previously stated, you and your husband have obviously discovered a lot of this dis-information. And, it does more harm than good.

Amen, it is good to see men thinking this way.

Being kink aware and in a relationship that started out based on a shared kink interest and evolved into a D/s relationship what he kept sending me links to and the books he asked me to read, were insulting and irksome. Some of it had me wanting to get a hold of the authors and use my best single tail on them.

The whole time I was reading I kept thinking “what if I wasn’t a kink aware woman”? How much damage would this do to me? To my feelings about him? To our sex life? And then I am back to the “you need something on your penis to be a better husband?”

I think of all the things he said to me as we went round and round about this that one thought had me wanting to take the devices and use them as anal stims and it wouldn’t have been fun because what I had in mind meant they would pop out of his mouth I would shove them so far in! (Gee, can you tell that’s a raw nerve?)

gungadn wrote

For those of us with Wives/Significant Others that don't fall into the above category. There is very little (actually no) valid information about, what is really in it for them. Why would they want to go through the hassle of holding the key? What do they get out of it? If nothing else, this conversation about what turned her off is valuable information. And, if the conversation leads to her and her husband finding some "middle ground" where it is advantageous to BOTH of them... I find that immensely valuable.

If nothing else, this conversation about what turned her off is valuable information.

That made me laugh a bit, NOT because I saw it as funny but because what turned me off is the fact everything he sent me to read, everything he said to me pissed me off and at the risk of losing all my dominate street creds when I am pissed I don't want to kink play because it's not smart to play angry.

Truly; I cannot for the life of me imagine what it would have been like for me to have had all this stuff pushed at me if I wasn’t to bossy, bitchy snot I am. If I were a submissive woman and I don’t mean sexually, I mean a woman who didn’t feel comfortable being in charge, being asked to take charge of my man’s sexuality ( and let’s not kid ourselves, this is what is being asked) would most likely confuse the hell out of me.

I have no experience talking to women who are dealing with this, I do have some experience with women who have been asked to become the dominant in the relationship and some women just can’t do it for whatever reason, the idea scares them or confuses them and if the man asking keeps pushing it ends up in an ugly melt down.


I knew what chastity play was long before he brought up the idea and it has never had any appeal to me. Again I can’t imagine what it would have been like for me to have had all this stuff pushed at me as someone who was unaware.


To prevent system overload ( mine and the readers,) I think we all need a coffee break here.

[wonderingwife]

I struggle to stay “on topic” or more, I struggle to stay with the topic of chastity alone, the good and maybe the not so good depending on which side of this fence you are one, because there are so many places to diverge as this conversation progress.

Gungadn wrote

And, if the conversation leads to her and her husband finding some "middle ground" where it is advantageous to BOTH of them... I find that immensely valuable.

It’s almost crazy how something I did (my initial post) to shut him up and to get him leave me alone, has turned into an ice breaker between us. We don’t know where the middle ground is yet but at least we are talking about it and he’s not trying to manipulate me into just going along with the idea.

I am still laughing at him over the fact how things ended up blowing up in his face because of one of the links he sent me (the one to this site) and the fact the shock that I didn’t just post, or the post I left to shut him ended up having me stay and got involved in a conversation about why I wasn't interested that morphed into what it is now is, that shock is still on his face sometimes when he sits down here to read the thread.

Cute dog, funny dog, eager to please dog, but not the brightest dog sometimes and even in his bad dog phase he stumbles into the right thing. Karma looks out for cops and fools ( FYI, bad dog isn’t a cop.)

gungadn I hope it won’t make you uncomfortable if I put you on the spot a bit, but that has me wondering if you have a partner you are trying to figure out how to talk to right now or if you are trying to be prepared for when that partner is in the picture later on ? I know I am putting you on the spot and I am prying so feel free to not answer the question.

Why I am asking is because it kind of ties into what locked4her55 said:

I thought I knew what women wanted sexually for the past 40 years. I'm sorry to say I was selfish during that time and just figured they wanted the same feelings sexually that I wanted.

Here’s where I diverge: I swear sex-ed classes need to be taught long after we get that basic sex-ed class somewhere in the middle school years. The idea that sexual capabilities just “happen” and we shoud just somehow “know how to get it right” and all of it happen graceful and naturally is maybe one of the most misguided notion on the planet. I don’t know anyone who had a great “first time” ( losing their virginity) and that first time can follow us into the next time and the next and the next. I lost mine with a guy who was a klutz and I spent most of time telling him what to do. Bad dog says that’s what turned me into a dominant, god help us all if that’s true because that poor klutz is still out there climbing in bed and expecting to be ordered around and not all women want to do the ordering.

It wasn’t that experience turned me into a dominate, it was being the youngest of six kids and the only girl, having five older brothers, I learned early how to order men around and spook the crap out of them without pouting and crying, if I didn’t get my way.

So back to “sex ed later in life”. We all need it, it isn’t just guys who get this wrong; gender doesn’t matter when it comes to the ins and outs of not understanding cumming. We often fumble the basics, is it any wonder we really mess up with the kink side?

Somewhere in all the conversation Tom mentioned spending years trying to get laid, then somewhere he stopped thinking about getting laid and started thinking of ways to avoid it.

tcs mentioned that his wife wanted to make him cum, see him cum because it was proof he was attracted to her and enjoyed sex with her. (Not verbatim here and guys if I goofed up what you were thinking feel free to correct me, I won’t see it as being topped, I promise. )
Am I repeating myself here I know but I am kink aware, I have my own kinks, I thrive on T&D with the bad dog, but there is a point that I WANT to see him cum, I want to see the look on his face, I want to see his body respond to my touch, I need that for my own sexual satisfaction and all the sudden he’s telling me “I’ll make you cum but I don’t want to” honestly my brain still goes “WTF” even as I sit and here have this conversation, but a lot of it goes back to my basic sex-ed classes and my first sexual contacts.

I have always been the way I am, every guy I dated if I found them interesting enough to get naked with then my one goal was to make them have an orgasm that orgasm meant I had do everything right because the evidence was right there. One thing that flashed thru my mind when he started bugging me to “just try this” was maybe he didn’t want to have sex with me anymore, that maybe he’d lost interest in me, that maybe this was a way to avoid sex with me. There was nothing to indicate that but by nature I tend to be sceptical and as it was the whole idea threw me so yes, my mind went places that were illogical and somewhat ludicrous.

Even as I was thinking it I knew I was being silly but it was what it was and then I had pushing me, tweaking me trying to get me to do it his way and he wasn’t hearing me say “No I can’t do this and here’s why!”
Okay that all came out as one constant thought. Have I confused the whole group totally now? May be time for another coffee break, but it’s 10:08 p.m. here at my place so I think I’ll opt for a glass of wine.

Before I go to regroup and spam again, I am going to put lockedforher55 on the spot:

It took chastity and a healthy dialogue between my wife and I to really understand it.

I am going to be really ornery here and re-word that:
It took a healthy dialogue between my wife and I to really understand chastity.
Safe to say it wasn’t the chastity that helped you both understand; it was the dialogue you had to have ABOUT chastity that helped you both understand?

Paraphrasing what seems to be one of the mantras here ( and I think it can’t be said enough no matter HOW it gets said):

It’s not the device that makes us closer, it is the sharing of an interest in the kink that brings us closer.

Look at it from another angle, it’s not the whip I use on my husband that makes us closer, it the shared action and enjoyment we both get from me using the whip on him.

[wonderingwife]

Quoteing TwitedMister out of sequence here. Before I do that, I want to say I am quite pleasantly (happily) surprised you are still with this thread. You’re initial post had me thinking “OH boy this guy and I aren’t going to get along, we are going to be oil and water.” (I will concede my initial posts weren’t exactly memberships friendly ) And then the wording in the tag line when it changed, how it happened at a point when it was stated the first time the topic was being overanalyzed, had me thinking “forget oil and water- this is going to be match and gasoline.” Turned out, your tag line sparked a conversation -that sparked a conversation-between my husband and me. Again I say Karma looks out for cops and fools. ( I’m not a cop. )
I will also concede; It can’t be easy for guys to sit here and read a woman saying why she has no interest in something that is to them may be the very essence of their kink personality.

Twisted Mister said

Well, to me, chastity and BDSM go hand-in-hand. In *my* opinion (and the way it works for us) [a] chastity [device] is a form of bondage, a method of domination and enforcement of her will. I know that others here don't hold the same opinion but that's OK, we don't all have to do it the same way.

I’m one of those who doesn’t. Nothing goes hand-in-hand for us, as a couple and I don’t think it should. This is like saying chastity and feminization or chastity and cuckolding go hand-in-hand. I’ve said I knew what chastity play was before he brought the idea up, I’d done some reading on the topic long before he asked because quite often it is mixed in with BDSM information. Something I read some time ago ( six seven years ago) had a statements that basically told women to not be surprised when the man they put under lock and key eventually asked to be feminized or asked to be a cuckold because men who want chastity always harbor these desires, if they didn’t have these desires, they wouldn’t be asking to be put in chastity. I found that extremely insulting, and utterly ridiculous. That is an assumption that is out of this world arrogant on the author’s part. This whole insane line of thought could be the nail in the coffin for a woman who isn't kink aware and is trying to understand what is going on when he partner brings up the idea of chastity.

The author’s name was female, Madame something or other, I honestly don’t recall the first name of the “Madame” but I have no doubt there was a man behind that female pen name. This author also stated that men who want to be put in chastity eventually lose their desire for sexual contact with their partner because they become so focused on not gaining pleasure from sexual contact. Guys is this true? ( Sort of asked tongue in cheek.)

This might be a plot spoiler but the idea all dominant women want to turn their men into quasi-eunuchs is not true. I only know a handful of women who are BDSM dominants but not one of them has any interest in giving up the “skin to skin” contact that comes with having PIV sex with their sub, and none of them use long term lock up without release even though it can be the constant gospel of these kind of sites that offer information on chastity. Even before he asked me to read what he found in the last few months about chastity, the stuff I read pissed me off. The author of this tripe I am speaking of is a certified lunatic in my book. My husband has no interest in forced feminization, even mild. Even joking about it with him is a hard limit of sorts. I really doubt locking him up is going to suddenly flip a hard limit for him. He did ask to be a cuckold, he’s had that fantasy for years and he did ask me to follow through on it. He was quick to tell me when he asked to add chastity play that he wasn’t going to bring the cuckold idea up because he knew for me it was a hard limit.

I have my own thoughts on why he has the cuckold fantasy and not one of my thoughts include the chastity aspect and after discussing the “why” of his asking to be a cuckold, I know chastity didn’t have a hand in it and no matter what the out of come is of our “middle ground” with this, cuckolding won’t be part of it.

I don't get mad when she doesn't do it *my way* because I recognize the inherent conflict of wanting her to do it *her* way, and *her* way not necessarily matching up with what I [might have] had in mind. So, I encourage her exploration and let her know when something she says/does pushes my buttons and then let her do what she wants with the knowledge. She can't read my mind (and if she could I'd be back on the semantic merry-go-round again) so patience is in order.

Amen, another “it is so good to read this from a man.”

This needs to be committed to memory by every guy who wants to bring this (or any sexually related topic) up for discussion with their partner. I do get hung up on the “here this is what I want now you figure out how to make it work for you and don’t ask me to talk about it because I just want you to do it for me” way things get dumped on me sometimes by the bad dog. Just because we are “D/s” doesn’t mean we don’t deal with the same things couples who aren’t D/s deal with. We are both still very human we both still get our wires crossed and we are both stubborn and have our self-fish moments. The only advantage the D/s has is the fact we have ground rules in place that were negotiated and agreed to. Not set in stone, but they are a “go to” spot when we get our wires crossed. It drives me crazy when the idea that D/s is put out there like it will fix a relationship that isn’t doing well. I don’t just have beefs with the way chastity is held up as some kind of magic relationship saver.

And I am so diverging (digressing?) all over the place here. I need to go start some laundry, fold some, put some away and wash the dinner dishes that got left in the sink last night. Yes I am a dominant who does laundry and dishes, sorry to disappoint.