Dev's Conceptual Model of Chastity

[Dev]

Unlike Billus, I identify with several things you said. And I don't believe that trying to identify a model based on experience (which I do) is in any way heading down the road to the "Chastity Taliban". I think that's just silly. If it works differently for you, fine. If not, use what you can from the observations and move on.

Others may agree or not; but I stand firmly in the "every case is unique" camp, no matter how similar some experiences may appear on the surface.

Man, it's a good thing scientists and doctors don't think that way.

Of course, human sexuality is as multivariant as there are people, but that doesn't mean generalizations are somehow wrong or evil. You just have to be careful not to take them too far. I read nothing in your words to suggest you've found the One True Way. There are lots of One True Ways and many of them meander along next to each other while a few go off at right angles.

Thanks. See my response to Billus because I address these issues there.

That said, I don't think the stage of Diminishing Returns has to happen. A guy in chastity needs to be maintained and, in my experience, that Nirvana stage can be looped endlessly with the right focus and frame of mind.

Like I said, the idea of Diminishing Returns is the one I am least sure about in my thinking. Not many people write about it. But I did have one email from a woman who said they found their best "cycle" and were pretty firmly committed to that. I also think that trying to find that "outer limit" does help to explain some of the marathon behavior that is seen/written about. Maybe the outer limit doesn't exist? It's something to think about, and discuss.

I do believe in the Home Stretch since I've found myself there. No matter how long I crave to be denied, there will come a time in which I really want the orgasm. So far, she hasn't denied me even into that period. When I get desperate, she let's me have it. In any event, I've found that successfully transitioning from Nirvana to Home Stretch can be tricky. I know she controls it, but I also know that if I'm not in the right frame of mind, it can get dicey.

And to me, this is a wonderful illustration of the fact that Belle understands the process and is able to make it work for both of you to your mutual benefit. As much as you like to say you are a masochistic subby bunny, in my observation, I think the heart of your relationship is a loving CPE, which is why chastity works for you.

I would also add, as a general comment: as I have been posting in the blog, I am trying to speak, at least some of the time, to questioning/interested/reluctant/perplexed wives. What is the best way to explain chastity in a way that will resonate with them? I have tried a couple of different approaches and have received mostly positive comments. Having a model will, I hope, for the women who think like me, help to illuminate the total process and give them a broader view of what they may experience and expect (with the caveat, of course, that all of this is subject to change and revision).

D

PS, Correct me if I am wrong, Thumper, but I think you have a challenging time with Getting to Headspace. That explains why you can't sleep and are busy surfing for porn on your iPad at 2 am in the morning. When you get to Nirvana, you are firmly in the zone, but you have to work to get there.

[likes2blocked]

Others may agree or not; but I stand firmly in the "every case is unique" camp, no matter how similar some experiences may appear on the surface.

Man, it's a good thing scientists and doctors don't think that way.

I'm with you. Quite a lot of what she wrote down rings true with me. Some comes out in different forms. For example, I work a _lot_, she doesn't have an outside job, AND we have a housekeeper. Thus, I don't do more housework. What I do is get more cuddly, more touchy, open doors, mostly what used to be considered 'gentlemanly'.

Also, just from a modeling animal behavior point of view, no model is ever universally applicable, especially a new one. Just because someone is an outlier doesn't invalidate a conclusion that is supported by a sample that says most people do 'X' when 'Y' happens. Or it could be that there are really more than one sub-population, and the model needs to be extended.

Just because someone makes a model doesn't mean that they're trying to force you into it.

[likes2blocked]

I think a REALLY key point you raised at the end is the difference between CPE and TPE. I think the expectations (either explicit or implied) about whether it's one kind of power exchange or another have HUGE bearing on the experience and behavior of the wearer.

I also think that understanding the difference between CPE and TPE is crucial. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on this subject.

That's a really good point, and I think it is a lot of why you see Sarah and John protesting that he's not submissive, and many other people thinking that what they do is a form of D&S. Seems they're both looking at being submissive as TPE, which they don't do. Many others would define CPE as a form of D&S, hence the difference in perceptions. I also think there's a spectrum of behaviors in both of those categories. Not sure where one draws the lines - is giving someone a key to your chastity device and allowing them to decide when you orgasm submission? What if you add a little light bondage? Or a bit of spanking? (now I'm distracted... sounds like FUN! )

For me, giving her the key, and most especially the freedom to decide on her own when I'll come next, is a submissive act.

[likes2blocked]

Like I said, the idea of Diminishing Returns is the one I am least sure about in my thinking.

I'm not sure about this, either. I tend to go through a sort of cyclical set of moods, at least since we've been playing really seriously in the last couple of months. I'd previously thought that anything more than 2 weeks was overkill. Now I'm thinking differently.

What I see in myself is a kind of stair-step. Anywhere from 4-8 days out, I'm really aroused, extremely aware of the fact that I'm not in control, and moving into the Nirvana phase. Then it seems like around a week later, I kind of hit a plateau for a few days, maybe even a bit down about it. If I didn't know better, this could be mistaken for diminishing returns. Then we keep going, and everything kicks up a notch. I then adjust to the new stage, and then upward again.

I honestly don't know where this does hit an end. I'm at a month now, it was a month before that, and there's some seriously fun brain chemistry going on (and it's completely legal ). I expect I'll be in a more intense space before I get released in 2 weeks. I've never done more than 6 weeks total, so we'll see what happens when we do 3 months, which is what's she's decided will be next.

[thumper]

For me, giving her the key, and most especially the freedom to decide on her own when I'll come next, is a submissive act.

Me too.

[thumper]

PS, Correct me if I am wrong, Thumper, but I think you have a challenging time with Getting to Headspace. That explains why you can't sleep and are busy surfing for porn on your iPad at 2 am in the morning. When you get to Nirvana, you are firmly in the zone, but you have to work to get there.

Whenever I go back in, it's usually "against my will" in that I'm not thrilled to be there (typically, I've been out for 5-7 days and have come a couple of times). Within 24-48 hours, though, I come around and start to enjoy it again. I like the porn no matter where I am in the cycle. I don't find that I struggle with arousal and horniness. I welcome those things. Instead, I fight the non-sexual feelings that can come with long-term denial and a lack of access to Belle. I've stopped trying to attach those struggles on her and have just accepted that they're part of the deal of really and truly handing over the key. When I feel the pilot's gone out, porn can sometimes help me get it going again, but I don't know if it's attached to any particular element. I'm a guy. I like porn. Sometimes, things are just that simple.

[Jimi123]

We have still not even tried MC so this is all noise from the outside.

Could the diminished returns also be a period where the "play" no longer is very exciting to one of both? For example the male just gets "used" to denial and starts to loose interest? Or the women gets satisfied with other sexual outlets and just finds the Male in Chastity to be a non sexual part of her life? I think this is part of what I fear and why "Be careful what you wish for" is a really good idea in some cases.

[Dev]

I'm with you. Quite a lot of what she wrote down rings true with me. Some comes out in different forms. For example, I work a _lot_, she doesn't have an outside job, AND we have a housekeeper. Thus, I don't do more housework. What I do is get more cuddly, more touchy, open doors, mostly what used to be considered 'gentlemanly'.

I would say that's what is happening in the Devoted Lover household, too. I also think Ab is trying to be more conscious of doing things when I ask, rather than putting something off (and no, I am not asking for random, silly things). For example, we've been dealing with trying to get a credit for an item I purchased that was never delivered. I checked the credit card statement on Friday and the credit still hadn't posted. I called Ab and asked him to follow up (I wanted to have an answer before the weekend). At first he said, "I'll take care of it on Monday," but then he stopped and said, "No, wait, you asked, I'll take care of it right now." I didn't realize how much the "putting off" annoyed me. Now he is being very conscious and deliberate about not doing it. Is this because of chastity? I think there is a relationship, yes.

Just because someone makes a model doesn't mean that they're trying to force you into it.

Speaking theoretically, I don't believe that models exist to force people to act a certain way or to change behavior. Given that the vast majority of people don't know a model exists, how could they know that it is suggesting a certain way to act? They don't. Rather, a model helps to clarify and illuminate as a way of understanding. In this case, it's a way of understanding the process of chastity. There is nothing theoretical written on the subject. There is also no empirical evidence (and I doubt anyone is going to start doing research anytime soon). But there is a community of a few hundred people scattered here and there on the Internet. These folks are sharing their experiences and that provides a bit of qualitative data that can be used to inductively generate a few concepts and principles which is what I have tried to do.

Mostly, it was an interesting mental exercise for a Saturday afternoon. But if we can take it a little bit further, as a way of understanding, what's wrong with that? Nothing, I say.

D

[Dev]

We have still not even tried MC so this is all noise from the outside.

Could the diminished returns also be a period where the "play" no longer is very exciting to one of both? For example the male just gets "used" to denial and starts to loose interest? Or the women gets satisfied with other sexual outlets and just finds the Male in Chastity to be a non sexual part of her life? I think this is part of what I fear and why "Be careful what you wish for" is a really good idea in some cases.

Well, at 48 days of lock up, I can honestly say that neither of us are losing any interest. I've had more sex in the past 48 days than I had in all of 2009. Well, that might be an exaggeration, but only slightly.

I am curious as to what you mean re: other sexual outlets. That the woman pleasures herself (masturbates) and doesn't have her husband do it? For me, that's not my style. I'm lazy and I like to have my husband do the work of giving me an orgasm. I have read posts where the woman masturbates while the husband watches (no touching, dear...). I don't think that's a non-sexual role and probably for guys who have voyeur fetishes, is a really hot experience.

Or, do you mean that the woman has gone off and found herself another man, leaving her husband in the dust? Cuckholding is not for me but some couples do make it work in their lives. But I think, to be successful, there has to be a lot of open, honest communication around the issue before venturing forward. It's not something that is done on a whim and certainly is not something that is done because the woman has lost interest in "the man in chastity."

D

[Dev]

I honestly don't know where this does hit an end. I'm at a month now, it was a month before that, and there's some seriously fun brain chemistry going on (and it's completely legal ). I expect I'll be in a more intense space before I get released in 2 weeks. I've never done more than 6 weeks total, so we'll see what happens when we do 3 months, which is what's she's decided will be next.

That's one disadvantage, I think, of starting off with a bang, as we have. First time out with chastity and a device and I settled on 53 days, which is just a few days short of two months. What's next? Three months? Or do we back it back a bit, say to one month. I think part of it will depend on what happens while he is out and what happens when he gets locked back up. If Ab gets himself to Nirvana, fast, I'd be more inclined to let him out on a shorter timetable, say a month or so. On the other hand, if we have to go through some of the struggles we went through last time with giving up control, then I will be more likely to make his lock up longer, say, until mid-January, which would be his birthday.

D