But what do I get out of this?

[wonderingwife]

Kinda figured that’s where you were going with that. Autocorrect can be a real P.I.T.A! One of the boards I moderate is a surname specific help board for people trying to get started on ancestry research. A few days ago someone asked if we could help them figure out where their “great grand motor” was born. I am guessing they were the victim of autocorrect, I hope so anyway. I am still fighting the urge to tell them if she was American made, the best place to start would be the tag office in the county seat in Detroit, Michigan and if she’s an import it is going to harder to find out. Unfortunately, many I deal with there don’t have much appreciation for smarty pants type humor.

tsc wrote:

Some chaste men can be very focused on wanted to give orgasms without seeing that their partners want to see them come too.

That’s part of what was driving me crazy! He was so focused on what he was “going to be doing for me” he was not hearing me say “This doesn’t DO IT for me and you are asking me to do without so you can do for me!”

tcs wrote:

I am wired to thoroughly enjoy the surge of sex drive that comes with avoiding orgasms. This isn't for everyone. When my wife realize this, I think she started to understand how much she was pleasing me in a different way.

That makes a lot of sense. For some delaying gratification is of course going to make an orgasm more intense and for others avoiding it all together is going to increase the surge. We aren’t all wired the same way that’s for sure. I have dated men who couldn’t stand to be teased and aroused for more than a couple of hours before they were climbing the wall and myself, I can’t handle being teased and aroused for more than a couple of hours before I am climbing the wall, and why it is hard for me to get my mind around wanting to go longer or do without the orgasm.(Just thinking that makes me shudder!) We are all wired differently and that wiring crossed with someone who isn’t wired the way we are, I think my bad dog and I are examples of the misfires that will cause.

I’d said before when my husband has gone more than two or three days without orgasm, he gets grumpy and to be honest that’s one of the reasons this whole idea has no appeal for me, I have a system in place to prevent that and he’s messing with my system! (LOL)

I think the test here is going to be to see just what his mood will be like after that third day or so of self-imposed lock up. Of course we have had to go longer than the three or four day cycle over the years but he’s had to option of masturbation to take the edge off the grumpy mood. Thinking about this now as I write this, one of the things that did shock me when he started pestering me to try this was the fact he’s never been one to want to forgo that two or three day cycle for an orgasm.

Have you used ruined orgasms as a way of giving him an orgasm but not really?

I need to point out: There is more to our sex life than PIV, I’m not obsessed with only having PIV but it is a very important part of the sex act for me. I want my "real penis" PIV (demand it) but that isn’t the only way I bring him to orgasm, it is just part of the way I get him there and sometime it does end with a ruined orgasm.

[TwistedMister]

TwistedMister wrote:

I've been following this thread and some things come to mind: One is that coming to a forum full of male chastity enthusiasts for advice on how to get someone to stop talking about it is kind of like going to a bar to get advice on how to stop drinking- it doesn't surprise me that a lot of the responses are suggesting giving it a try.

FYI: I wouldn’t be here if my husband hadn’t asked me to sign up for this site because it had a section for women. It was the first site I have been asked to look at in the last few weeks that even seemed real enough to consider wanting to take the time to read and I did read a bit of it before I posted, but since that first post I have read quite a few of the threads alone and last night with my husband. Just with my initial basic skim of the site a couple of days ago, I figured what better place to learn then from the ones who live it, I didn’t realize a woman explaining why it didn’t have any appeal or looking for some discussion on the topic would be so off putting or that maybe (?) women were relegated to the “key holders only” section.

LOL, women aren't restricted from posting anywhere, they are free to post anywhere they please. It's the *men* who are (I don't think we have any locked ladies?) restricted from the Keyholder forum- they can't even *see* it, let alone post there. The idea was to give them a place where they could have discussions without being subject to interference/projections/suggestions/opinions/judgments/etc. from those who are locked, who would not even be aware of what (if anything) was being discussed unless a Keyholder *chose* to make them aware.

If you have read all of my posts, if you haven’t selectively read, you would have found out why I was looking for a way to shut him up. It isn’t just the piece of hardware that has me bugged; it is the fact he would like to go weeks, even months without having PIV sex.

No, I read them completely, however I will admit to being pressed for time- reading quickly and, in this particular case, responding much later. That particular detail escaped me when I made my reply.

When I made my response, I had it in mind that you wouldn't be considering such a thing, but that whatever bit of this you might choose to indulge him in (if you were to choose to do so at all) you would choose his level of participation to suit *your own* desires rather than his.

As far as asking permission for anything that was his idea and it was the way things were set up ages ago when we agreed to and the D/s to our marriage. Considering this isn’t a D/s focused site, I have tried to keep that out of the discussion as much as possible for a few reasons. Number one reason being out of respect for the site membership and avoiding the hassle of the crowd and round and round debate that type of conversation draws. As it is, there’s more here about that part of our relationship then should be, because this isn’t a D/s site and my apologies in advance if it does draw that type of attention to the site, because that type of attention rarely ends on a good note. I tend to avoid sites that are geared toward D/s because of all the ridged, holier than thou smug narrow minded hard liners who haunt sites like that.

If I were to go into exacting details about our agreement it would be obvious to you why the way he went about this was out of bounds and out of the bounds he asked to have in place in our D/s agreement. I didn’t ask or demand to “be in control” he asked me to take control 13 years ago.


I am up against the clock here and have phones, as in plural, ringing off the hook for my attention and I am at the point of not avoiding writing a novel, so I am going to post this and doing so with much gratitude for the discussion that has evolved here. As I said the idea though not appealing, it wasn’t a hard limit no go for me, so we’ll see how things develop over the next few weeks, if it will become something that will not work for us or if it is something we can shape into a compromise.

I understand.

[fuzzydunlop]

Some complaints I can see a lot of wives having:

A. Guy becomes intensely self absorbed with his penis.
B. Guy puts on a martyr complex like "it is all for her" which isn't exactly true.
C. Worrying about chastity device is cumbersome and tedious.
D. Guy ignores that sometimes a woman wants to fuck hard and get filled with semen.

I can see why some women would think it is a passive aggressive an condescending game, if both partners are not on the same page.

The first really long chastity stint we did was when my wife was pregnant, sick and had zero sex drive. I turned it into a longterm chastity game with the understanding that I would not pester her and I would try to use my sexual energy for non-sexual goals. I think that built a lot of trust with its and encouraged we to play more when she felt better. She saw that I would take the oar and "own it" rather than be passive aggressive.

The other thing is that she found the a steel cage just more pleasing to look at. My plastic cage was that "thingy" but the steel device was "your cage". The hottest time we had was when she made me watch her masturbate with my cage on. It tied right into to we exhibitionist streak.

So, you never really know what you will stumble upon if you are curious and willing to balance things and willif to be patient.

[wonderingwife]

Twisted Mister wrote:

When I made my response, I had it in mind that you wouldn't be considering such a thing, but that whatever bit of this you might choose to indulge him in (if you were to choose to do so at all) you would choose his level of participation to suit *your own* desires rather than his.

I hope you understand now why I was so put off by the whole idea. My husband was off in his own little fantasy world and wasn’t hearing me. I spent a good six-seven weeks with him not hearing me, every time I told him why it didn’t appeal to me he sent me more links to read trying to change my mind. It wasn’t until the other day when I dropped the hammer on him in a way I never expected to, posting here and then the conversation that took place after that point. That’s when I started getting his words for why he wanted to try this, instead of the words of other peoples’ words for why I should just go ahead and “indulge him”. To just go ahead and indulge him without him hearing me, hearing why I wasn’t interested was a set up for a bad mess between us.

No I am not keen on this this idea, it still has no appeal to me, but I would have been more sympathetic and patient if he hadn’t started out treating me like a mushroom: keeping me in the dark and feeding me bullshit. Once he stopped trying to get me to just “go along with it” and give up something that I enjoy so he could have his fantasy fulfilled at my expense and started actually hearing why it didn’t appeal to me we got into a more workable area for dealing with why and/or how we could both get something out of what he asked for.

Interesting swap in your tag line:

... I told her she should 'have fun with it' if she wanted to, that I was embarrassed to admit that something so nasty aroused me & I didn't want to analyze it, she should just do what she wanted with the information...

I recall as of yesterday you’re tagline was a reference to the fact you are a cuckold and you were surprised it happened. ( I hope I have the right tag line assigned to the right person.) I have to ask what exactly is “so nasty”? That’s a troubling statement.

Or maybe it is this an inference the topic is being over analysed? If it was meant to be a shot over my bow, it most likely missed its mark. It reads like so much of the stuff I have seen on line not just on this topic but on topics of a kink interests over all, the male centric “just do it for him, you’ll see, you’ll like it.”

I think one of the things many men miss or neglect to think about ( and not just with this subject but with sexual and/or fetish topics over all) is it is hard to “just use the information any way she wants” when the information may have confused her, made her doubt herself and her own abilities as a sexual partner and her need to figure it out with the person who asked her to read it is telling her to just figure it out on her own and to do anything other than that is “analysing” it.

Can you possibly understand how dismissive that line of thought is to a partner's feelings? Why not think of it as evaluating instead of analysing? May be I am nit-picking, but evaluating means to look at every aspect of what is suggested in a way that is fair to the ones who will be part of whatever is being considered.

I am kinky on my own and I have asked for things that are hard limits for my husband. I didn’t know they were hard limits for him until I asked him to consider them. Without evaluating whatever it is I asked for with him, I had no way to know it would be a hard limit. Once we established it was a hard limit for him, I had to let it go or make us both miserable by demanding I get my way and put what we do have, that we do enjoy, in jeopardy.

This isn’t a hard limit for me but it isn’t anything I have an interest in being invested in at this point, but it just so happens it is something he can explore without a lot of investment from me. There are very few fetishes out there that could work this way and I am happy with the fact he is willing to work with me in the way I have asked him too. My only left-over gripe is the fact we could have got here, to this point a hell of a lot sooner if he had been willing to be more open minded about how it was going to affect me rather than trying to goad me into trying it his way and then having it blow up in our faces because it did turn out to be a hard limit for me.

[wonderingwife]

Some complaints I can see a lot of wives having:

A. Guy becomes intensely self absorbed with his penis.
B. Guy puts on a martyr complex like "it is all for her" which isn't exactly true.
C. Worrying about chastity device is cumbersome and tedious.
D. Guy ignores that sometimes a woman wants to fuck hard and get filled with semen.
I can see why some women would think it is a passive aggressive an condescending game, if both partners are not on the same page.

The first really long chastity stint we did was when my wife was pregnant, sick and had zero sex drive. I turned it into a longterm chastity game with the understanding that I would not pester her and I would try to use my sexual energy for non-sexual goals. I think that built a lot of trust with its and encouraged we to play more when she felt better. She saw that I would take the oar and "own it" rather than be passive aggressive.

The other thing is that she found the a steel cage just more pleasing to look at. My plastic cage was that "thingy" but the steel device was "your cage". The hottest time we had was when she made me watch her masturbate with my cage on. It tied right into to we exhibitionist streak.

So, you never really know what you will stumble upon if you are curious and willing to balance things and willif to be patient.

tcs, some very thought-provoking observations here and I am really short on time here but didn’t want to walk away without at least a nod " you have me thinking" to your post.

I can see why some women would think it is a passive aggressive an condescending game, if both partners are not on the same page.

It was the “condescending part” that had me ready to crack my husband’s head open to look and see if he’d suddenly lost all the gray matter inside that hard skull of his and make sure the gray in his hair wasn’t his brains leaking out.

She saw that I would take the oar and "own it" rather than be passive aggressive.

I don’t deal well with passive aggressive and he knows that but is exactly the approach he took with me over this topic.

Did you ever have that feeling something was trying to surface as a cogent thought but it hadn’t quite made it to the surface? That’s where I am right now.

Your post and the two quotes I have here in the body of my post, had me thinking backwards to how we became the kinky couple we are now. We have never been so opposite of each other when approaching a kink interest one or the other had and I am trying to "evaluate” the matters to get that thought, whatever it is to hit the surface. As soon as it hits the surface if it has any relevance I’ll add it here to all the other evaluating I have been doing. And not doubt between now and then more of what you have said here will bring on more ideas that may end up here.

[newstuff69]

how do you get added to the key holder group?

[Atone]

how do you get added to the key holder group?

Tom or I can do that for you but I need to wait until I am at a computer. Too hard to do from my phone.

[TwistedMister]

Interesting swap in your tag line:
I recall as of yesterday you’re tagline was a reference to the fact you are a cuckold and you were surprised it happened.

Ummm, not exactly...not yet, anyway. You would have actually had to have been following the tagline swaps for some weeks to get the full story, which is sort of what I've been doing- it's telling an ongoing story in short blurbs of 255 characters or less. Way back in the past (30? years or so) when we first got together, some things happened, but that was before I knew anything about the world of kink...and before I knew anything about my attraction to it. Those incidents were emotionally painful and depressing, nothing but hurt and bad feelings but I learned to deal with them, so I have some experience in that regard.

Fast forward- over the years we have become progressively kinkier, we are very secure in our relationship and the idea is something that has been coming up lately. It's not just me, she has been having dreams and fantasies of it too, and has told me about them. However, since the early incidents and our getting past them she has been 100% committed to me and insisted that she would *never* actually do it, despite our occasional teasing remarks about 'boyfriends' and some fantasy pillow talk during sex. The surprise was that I admitted to her that the idea really 'turned me on'...and she has started getting more adventurous with it.

I have to ask what exactly is “so nasty”? That’s a troubling statement. Or maybe it is this an inference the topic is being over analysed? If it was meant to be a shot over my bow, it most likely missed its mark. It reads like so much of the stuff I have seen on line not just on this topic but on topics of a kink interests over all, the male centric “just do it for him, you’ll see, you’ll like it.”

No, not a 'shot over your bow', it has nothing to do with you (although it does relate to your current discussions with your hubby as it is the similar sort of thing). The 'nasty' is the fact that she has discovered that she greatly enjoys cunnilingus after intercourse- to me it's 'nasty' (especially *after* an orgasm and any/all interest in sex has disappeared) and it's not something I do willingly...but I have discovered that the thought (and actuality) of being *forced* to do it is highly erotic. The *really* 'nasty' part is that I find the idea of being forced to do it after she has been with someone else (while I am still horny and unsatisfied) to be highly erotic as well- something which I had some difficulty in admitting to her. I was/am rather embarrassed to admit to her that this idea actually turns me on, and *that* is what I don't want to analyze. I am somewhat disturbed that something of that nature excites me and I would prefer not to discuss the 'why' of it, I'm becoming of the opinion that the 'why' doesn't really matter. Interestingly enough, just as she was the one to introduce cunnilingus after intercourse (although it had become a fantasy of mine previous to that, I had never mentioned it to her because I was too embarrassed/humiliated to tell her that something I viewed as the next thing to 'queer' turned me on) she was also the one to first speak of doing it *after* intercourse with others (three others to be more specific***).

***(More than a year ago I had had a dream where I was in a house, fully clothed while she was naked. There were three other men present. I went to her, put my arms around her and then slipped my hand between her legs...and discovered that a copious amount of semen was leaking out of her. I awoke suddenly at that point, startled and aroused. She was already awake and asked me what was going on...somewhat shocked and without my mental filters in place I told her exactly what I had dreamed of. A month or two later, during sex, she introduced the idea of me licking her pussy "after those three guys" fucked her. In the dream, the three guys were just 'there', it wasn't clear that she had had sex with them and I hadn't said that she had, and I *certainly* hadn't mentioned the idea of eating her out afterward, which wasn't even hinted at in the dream.)

So, it isn't a "male centric “just do it for him, you’ll see, you’ll like it”" thing, it's something that has some appeal on both sides of the equation. She has become a bit less inhibited over the years. Whether or not she is becoming uninhibited enough to actually go through with something like that is still unknown...but I've shown my hand and let her know that if she 'wants to have some fun with it' it is not against the limits. And this being unknown can be erotic too. (When we had a conversation about it, after an intense session with some free-wheeling talk, where she wanted to reassure me that she *wouldn't* actually do something like that, I had told her that I would rather had not known that because her saying it kind of put a damper on the eroticism of it. So, she *could* be just screwing with my head...or not.)

(We are not currently engaged in a chastity-D/s scenario and life is 'normal' so to speak, so I don't see this as 'topping from the bottom', merely some frank talk about some things that turn us on.)

[wonderingwife]

So what they say is true, it’s all in the timing? Kind of like I walked into a movie mid-way thru. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it and I appreciate you addressing something that is awkward for you; you could have just blown the question off.

My husband has the same desire to be forced to clean up after himself and after another man, thus him bringing up the idea of being a cuckold a while back and he has shared more than a few dreams of a similar nature. Like you, he has his own ‘why do I want this?’ wonderings about this particular fetish. In fact he’s that way about a few of his fetishes. Most all of his are “bottom” type fetishes and that embarrasses him and I will never understand that, it works out great for me.(ha-ha)



Can we turn the sow’s ear into a silk purse here maybe? Get away from something that makes you feel (and my own guy) uncomfortable and head back to what I said about “asking her to just figure it out on her own” given this input, posted maybe wrong place wrong time but it was something that I often found myself dealing with the bad dog. He has a habit of “here buy this, look at this, read this but don’t make me talk about, just figure out how to do it in a way you can have fun with it” and then unfairly leaves me to swing in the wind trying to figure what in the world he wants me to do with it.

(All that was all typed with a puzzled but good natured look on my face).


Me being who I am I don’t let him just slip the leash and leave me to figure it out, I make him help me figure out the what, how and why of any new idea he brings up. I can typically get him to settle pretty quick and talk to me about what he is asking for/thinking about, again why I was so baffled by the way he went about approaching this, but since we have “evaluated it” and he stopped letting others speak for him and he was candid with me, I’m not baffled any more. I was gong nuts trying to get him TO talk about it.


Like I said, don’t kink related forums any more, but back when I did a common statement from women was “He tells me to do it my way then when I do he gets made because it isn’t the way he wanted it” and “He told me to just do it and enjoy it and he won’t help me and I have no idea what I am supposed to do.” Granted these comments were made in relation to BDSM type kink but I would imagine (guess) the same thing happens with the chastity kink? ( Asking because I don't know.)


“Frank talk” is always good and even as a D/s couple we have “frank talk time” where he speaks freely and has no worries of topping me or worries of me feeling like he is trying to.

[Allmylife4her]

I remain dumbfounded at the complexities everyone is putting on this very simple partnership act. Everytime I speak up I get shot down from those rallying around WonderingWife. While the long writings of the contributors are interesting, it really doesn't require such analysis. It's an art not a science. If a prospective key holder doesn't like the Picasso or doesn't understand it, no amount of reading will make you invest your time and money in it, you have to feel it from day one. You might get an understanding of what the artist was thinking or experiencing but you still aren't going to buy into hanging it on your wall.

I'm sure I will be shot down again for sharing my views, but I believe we all have an equal voice when someone starts a topic. There is a lock and a key. Everything else you personalize too your taste. If you don't want to use the lock then move on to another area where you appreciate the art. No amount of analysis will make it right, it'll only destroy the wonderment, trials and tribulations that can await both partners whom mutually appreciate the lifestyle.

I remain consistent with my earlier comments, I would look forward to hearing WonderingWifes views if infact they do proceed with a trial. And don't forget, it's an art not a science.