Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

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justplaying
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Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by justplaying »

I finally finished reading Cupid's Poisoned Arrow by Marnia Robinson. It wasn't really my kind of book, but I was interested in learning more about the chemical effects of orgasm. In a nutshell, she goes onto describe how the limbic system has the ability to override our rationale brain and create trouble in our relationships. A couple of very interesting points are made about the three parts of our brain and how they communicate and trigger responses in us human animals that cause cyclical behaviors that can stress an otherwise "normal" loving relationship.

So, here are the main points:
1. The three parts of the brain trigger responses to our physical actions that we are not always able to control.
2. The chemical's Dopamine, Oxytocin, and Prolactin work to produce different feelings in our minds towards our sexual partner (or lover, in the case of a relationship).
3. Orgasm causes a chemical reaction in both male and females that at first creates a wave of pleasure but then afterward causes the brain to seek out a new sexual conquest.
4. Sexual acts whose objective is to achieve an orgasm are defined as "mating sex".
5. Sexual acts whose objective is to not achieve an orgasm are defined as "bonding sex".

The objective in mating sex is to have an orgasm which then releases dopamine into your blood stream. Ironically, because the dopamine comes from within our own bodies, the medical /psychiatric professions cannot classify obsessive masturbation or other forms of excessive sex as an addiction. Only the legal community has tried to do so on the behalf of their clients (really, I am not kidding). The high achieved by dopamine release is as powerful a high as cocaine (although much more brief). The subsequent release of Oxytocin and Prolactin, help curb the production of Dopanine and result in the warm "afterglow" of closeness towards your sexual partner. This chemical effect is also responsible for men often falling asleep after orgasm. (By the way, these chemicals are not released as fluids in semen or any of a woman's orgasmic fluids, thus they are not shared by sexual partners). The cycle of chemical release is different between men and women. Women tend to have Oxytocin in their blood stream for a longer period of time than men. Oxytocin, often called "the cuddle drug", is responsible for the mating /nurturing effects that women tend to demonstrate more freely than men.

The book goes on to explain how men (especially) can more easily become addicted to masturbation then women (starting in adolescence) with repeated behavioral training effects working much like Pavlov's famous dog experiment. (Yes, again, I am not kidding). It claims that this "addiction" can be broken only if the chemical cycles are not triggered anywhere from 7-14 days up to 8 weeks. (I wonder if Charlie Sheen knows about this?). A negative side effect of the chemical cycle of orgasm is that men will desire sexual mating with other woman instead of their current partner. Or, if they don't find a new partner they tend to fantasize about sex with another partner or sex that their partner is not generally interested in having (a hint that fetishes are derived from this process is alleged). The book really doesn't explain very well how orgasm impacts a woman's feeling towards her mate, but that could be because much of the book deals with the author's husband working out his own "addictions".

And finally, at the end of the book the author gives you some insight into "Karezza" a quasi spiritual form of bonding sex. The author provides some exercises to try Karezza bonding sex, which she claims will keep the level of Oxytocin high and not result in the usual chemical cycle caused by orgasm. The exercises sound very much like Tantric foreplay and eventual tease and denial sex play with the potential for a "ruined orgasm". This was a bit of an ah ha moment for me. After reading the posts in this forum for several months now, I keep hearing about cycles of wanting and depression or apathy mixed in with strong feelings by the chaste male towards trying desperately to draw their mate into sessions of erotic intimacy without orgasm.

Could this be true? Is the entire idea of Male Chastity, a kind of Karezza sexual practice? The book seems to be pointing the reader in that direction. The author has a website called http://www.reuniting.info/ that covers it all. She does lean towards believing that bonding sex is an ancient spiritual practice that came from Eastern religions which may either interest readers or turn them off. In either case, it is an interesting read for $12.99 (e-book). Love to hear the forums thoughts on this topic. Thanks! justplaying
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davidphd1866
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by davidphd1866 »

Justplaying,

I have participated extensively in the Reuniting.info site. They really are on to something I believe.

Just be aware: Marnia and her husband sort of take a dim view of chastity play. They are very bright, but anything or anyone that deviates from their orthodoxy tends to get brushed off in the patronizing "whatever works for you" sort of way.

That said, I enourage others in our Forum here to read from the site. It would seem that there IS a brain chemical thing going on where our chastity play really does draw us together.

Kelmag has written extensively on this with copious references to the reuniting site. I suggest looking at kelmag's blog.

David
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justplaying
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by justplaying »

David;

Thanks for the blog suggestion. IF Secret Chastity Husband is Kelmags blog, then I have read it. That's actually where I got the suggestion to read the book. IF that isn't his site can you let me know the blog address? I will check it out.

I guess that explains why I felt the book had a bit of a "cult" feeling to it. I was mostly interested in the chemistry behind intimacy and love. I have this simple notion of we humans being animals that have a pre-programmed operating system, (ancient brain) running an application suite (rational brain) that permits us to construct thoughts (our reality) by interpreting what our senses collect from our environment. I know it's geeky, but that's how I think of things sometimes....For me the brain is just a chemically powered computer and our emotions are constructed responses to our sensory inputs.....Damn, that does sound geeky....Ok. So much for that line of thought...

The bottom line for me is to understand more about Karezza and see if it will be a suitable substitute for mating sex or not. Somehow I think that trying to fight against natural (pre-programmed) responses is not usually the way to go. My experience has shown that it is wiser to go with the natural flow of things, ride the current if you will. But I remain open minded about Karezza because I don't really know anything about it. Perhaps it is equally as natural as orgasm sex. We shall see....JP
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davidphd1866
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by davidphd1866 »

JP,

Great response. Thanks. I think your description of us all being sort of a natural computer makes great sense. That doesn't make it any less amazing, but it's a great way to visualize it.

To me, I consider Karezza nothing more than "the Honor System" in male chastity. As you look at Marnia's site, you come to see that her husband Gary simply chooses not to have orgasms based on their mutual understanding. The only difference with us, is we add in the neat little game aspect of things with a device. This is why I find Marnia's dismissal of chastity as so interesting and disappointing.

For me, though, I still find her work very valuable. It tells me that male chastity IS a sound way to keep couples interested in one another.

I have a question for you. Given your understanding of the "programming", do you see how the logic of Cupid's Poisoned Arrow would make cuckolding a natural outcome?

David
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justplaying
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by justplaying »

Wow, David, I can honestly say I didn't see that question coming at all. Major curve ball or perhaps a slider....
I have read Sarah and John's blog on this topic and I tend to side with Sarah on this one. So maybe I am missing your point. If you define Cupid's arrow as the motivation behind mating sex, meaning the male wishes to mate with as many females as possible (not the same one), and the female wants to be fertilized by as many males as she can, then I guess cuckolding makes sense. However, if you look at it from the bonding sex perspective, cuckolding would be very counter productive, I think. I have to honestly say that I have trouble wrapping my head around having my wife "serviced" by another man and still having a strong bond of intimacy with me....Just don't get that....Am I missing your point?
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kpb57
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by kpb57 »

I don't think that females want to mate with as many males as possible.

I rather think that males are there for spreading the genes, while females represent the selective element, which is quite natural. We males can become fathers daily, while women can carry a baby once a year, at best.

Women tend to have affairs outside their main relationship because often the guy who is good for raising kids and makes for a warm, cuddly home is not the strong, warrior-type, good-looking one. And the warrior, while extremely necessary for the survival of the group/tribe/nation, may not live long enough to help raise his kids.

Cuckolding may be just an extreme representation of this, where the cuddly guy actually knows that the woman is being impregnated by the warrior.

On the original topic:
I am a very monogamous man (as my wife is also), I never experienced the urge to look for other mates or "conquests" after having had "mating" sex. Our journey into (very light, no orgasm-denial, just control) chastity has revealed that "mating sex" is as much "bonding sex" for us as any other type.
Since I have now realized the importance of the after-sex cuddling and afterplay for my wife, I rather am the one who stays awake afterwards while she drifts off to sleep with her head on my shoulder and her body snuggling up to me.
So, for me, to improve the relationship it is not necessary to break the (male) orgasm cycle, but to simply make me focused on my partner, seeing to her needs first, with the option of being rewarded after.

PS and edit:

For the geeks: Eric Raymond once posted a very good article on his view of the evolutionary principles behind human male and female mating behaviours: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/promiscuity.html
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davidphd1866
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by davidphd1866 »

JP, KPB,

You are right. For the sake of bonding, cuckolding would be truly counterproductive, I think.

What I was saying (alluded to by JP) was that one of the reasons the word "poisoned" is in Cupid's Poisoned Arrow is that the natural urges MAY be that Nature is conspiring in such a way as to promote a version of cuckolding instead of bonding. I certainly am not making a case for or against cuckoldry, rather, I believe that the dynamic Marnia describes seems to support cuckoldry from a biologic point of view.

Do you guys think so? I do. (again, not condoning cuckoldry or advocating it) I think Mother Nature is perfectly fine with a woman having a warm, cuddly guy at home to take care of the family raising and earing, while she has sex with the warrior type.

To me, this is why chastity play appears to be so successful at improving relationships. It promotes the bonding by helping to bypass somewhat the hangover effects of ejaculation.

David
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fuzzydunlop
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by fuzzydunlop »

I don't really buy that there is proven "science" behind the stuff on the website. Not saying that some of the practices aren't good or helpful, I just think there is a real anti-orgasm streak that hasn't been proven by any science. I am someone who sees the personal benefits of limiting orgasms, but don't think orgasms have the negative consequences on the site. The site is also a little too anti-kink, anti-porn for me. Also, it is a little too "one size fits all". I don't think every relationship is going to benefit, and I don't think that any given relationship is going to need the same practices throughout the duration.
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kpb57
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by kpb57 »

A

People are different. For some (Atone comes to mind) having a completed orgasm actually ends with them feeling somehow bad about it. Me, I almost never felt bad. Only when I positively knew that I had failed to hold myself back sufficiently and deprived my wife from having hers with me.

B

There are societies that quite openly tolerate cuckoldry. On the south sea islands with their small, closed populations, it is not uncommon that a passing stranger has sex with a local wife, and the resulting child being accepted into the family by the wife's husband. Expanding the genetic base of the population is always an evolutionary advantage.

K
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janken
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Re: Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Post by janken »

Very interesting information regarding the orgasm! Wouldn't mind picking that book up myself and I'm always on an ever going quest to learn more..
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